Gun owners, onlookers split on what gun control proposals could accomplish

Reaction to proposed gun control laws shows that even some local gun owners appear just as divided about the effectiveness of such measures as the politicians debating them.

Mass shootings over the past month in Buffalo, N.Y.; Uvalde, Texas; and Philadelphia have reignited the debate over gun laws. Although many people seem to agree the country has to find a way to stem gun violence on American streets and in schools, there is little agreement on how best to do that.

The U.S. House of Representatives passed gun control measures last week that proponents say will help reduce gun violence. Critics, however, say the measures harm law-abiding citizens and do nothing to hinder criminals or those bent on violence. The Senate is negotiating its own anti-violence measures. On Sunday, a group of Senators — including 10 Republicans — announced a bipartisan framework calling for passage of measured gun curbs and bolstered efforts to improve school safety and mental health programs.

“I genuinely, truly and as objectively as possible will say that I just don’t think new laws, new regulations, is the answer,” said Josh Rowe, a gunsmith and owner of Allegheny Arms & Gun Works in Bethel Park. “I just don’t see how it would appreciably change the situation for the better.”

Josh Fleitman, manager of CeaseFirePA’s Western Pennsylvania district, disagrees, arguing that more gun regulations may help slow the violence.

“In a country where there are (millions of guns), I’m clear-eyed that even in my dream world where we pass all these (gun regulations), we’re not going to eliminate gun violence,” he said. “But we can make that number lower. Every single number — it’s not a statistic — it’s a real life.”

Currently, the most commonly discussed avenues for possible compromise from Republicans and Democrats are:

• Increasing the minimum age from 18 to 21 for buying semi-automatic rifles — such as the AR-15. The House passed a bill last week. Currently, all firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than that for shotguns or rifles, may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. States are permitted to enact higher minimum age requirements. New York last week enacted a law that requires those purchasing semi-automatic rifles to be 21. It joined six other states — Pennsylvania is not among them — that previously had done so.

• Creating a federal “red flag” law. Red flag laws, or extreme risk protection orders, are laws enacted by some states that allow police to temporarily seize firearms from someone considered a risk to themselves or others. Nineteen states and the District of Columbia currently have such a law. Pennsylvania does not. The House on Thursday approved such a bill.

• Expanding background checks. Federal law requires federally licensed gun dealers and manufacturers to run background checks for sales to an unlicensed buyer. The law bans transfers to people convicted of serious crimes or who have been committed to a mental institution. Unlicensed sellers, such as those selling a rifle or shotgun to a friend or family member, can transfer guns without running a background check. That exemption does not apply to handguns, the transfer of which must always be accompanied by a background check.

The Senate compromise would make the juvenile records of gun buyers under age 21 available when they undergo background checks. It also would offer money to states to implement “red flag” laws and to bolster school safety and mental health programs. And it would take steps such as requiring more people who sell guns to obtain federal dealers’ licenses, which means they would have to conduct background checks of purchasers.

President Joe Biden said in a statement that the framework “does not do everything that I think is needed, but it reflects important steps in the right direction, and would be the most significant gun safety legislation to pass Congress in decades,” the Associated Press reported.

Much of the gun regulation debate is based on speculation, said Anthony Fabio, a professor of epidemiology at the University of Pittsburgh. There’s little data on the subject, he said, meaning experts can’t know for sure what regulations would have an impact.

Proposals like universal background checks seem to “make sense,” he said, but they lack concrete data to support them.

“I’m extremely cautious to say some of these things work,” he said. “I think we really need good data and funding for good research, and we don’t have either of those.”

Age debate

Nathan Carey, owner of Bullseye Firearms Gun Vault in New Alexandria, said his customers are mixed over the proposal to raise the minimum age for purchasing semi-automatic rifles.

“Some people say (the minimum age) should be higher. Some people say it should be the same,” he said. “Some people say, ‘You’re in the military and you are defending your country at the age of 18, why are you taking away rights from them?’”

Several gun owners repeated the military as justification for leaving the age requirement as is.

Sean Logue, whose Pittsburgh-based Logue Law Group practices firearms law, said he believes the age proposal seems contradictory.

“I don’t think it’s fair that 18-year-olds can go off to war and be maimed or die defending our country, but they don’t get all the rights and benefits that any other citizen would get,” he said.

Greg “Gooch” Ionadi, who owns Smoke N Guns in Oakmont — a combination gun shop and cigar and coffee bar — said he is torn over the age proposal.

“I firmly believe that if we’re going to require (someone to be) 18 years old to register for the military, then they should have the right to buy a gun or go into a bar and get a drink,” he said. “But, are there some 18-year-olds who shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun? Absolutely.”

Bill Fazi, who owns Fazi Firearms on Saltsburg Road in Plum, said increasing the age limit likely would do little to curb gun violence.

“Increasing the age to 21 is something that might occur,” he said. “I guess if there was such a law in Texas, the guy involved in the shooting at the school in Texas wouldn’t have been able to get that gun. But I also know a lot of 18- to 21-year-olds who are very responsible, and allowing them to own a gun isn’t a problem.”

For Rowe, it comes down to economics, and that’s why he said he doesn’t believe raising the age requirement will have the impact proponents are expecting.

“When you’re looking at an AR or any of those style guns, the average price of one of those guns is about $1,000. That’s just the gun. That’s not the magazines or the accessories,” he said. “Your average 18-year-old can’t afford it.”

Red flag law debate

Logue said a “red flag” law is not an “outrageous proposal.” Still, he said, he worries it could be “ripe for misuse and violate Second Amendment rights” unless the circumstances in which guns can be taken are strictly defined.

He said he would also like to see a clear process for how people could get their firearms back.

Fleitman of CeaseFirePA said he is an advocate for measures such as red flag laws, a ban on high-capacity magazines and laws requiring safe gun storage. All of those ideas are incorporated into the measures passed by the House last week.

Carey of Bullseye Firearms expressed reservations about red flag laws.

“They have a good intent of what they’re trying to do, but how are they going to do it?” he said.

Background check debate

Rowe of Allegheny Arms & Gun Works said he understands the need for background checks and simple precautions to keep guns from potentially violent people. But when it comes to further gun reform, he said, he doesn’t think it would do any good.

“We’re doing our very best to not sell guns to people who are going to funnel them into crime,” Rowe said.

Ionadi of Smoke N Guns in Oakmont said he “sees the point” of proposals to require background checks for people who buy a gun in a private transaction instead of from a dealer, but he is skeptical.

“Once you start changing things,” he said, “it’s never going to end.”

Carey said he didn’t think there would be much resistance to universal background checks among his customer base, which he said extends to at least four counties.

“There’s not many people who are against that,” he said. “I’d say 80% of my customers who come in here already do it. They’re selling their hunting rifle to their buddy, and they come in here and they do a transfer with a federal background check. It’s not a big deal.”

Debbie Schultz, who owns Schultz’s Sportsman’s Stop in Kiski Township, said proposals that would require the buyer of a semi-automatic rifle in a private transaction to undergo a background check make sense.

“The way it is now, I can have a table at a gun show and people who buy from me have to get a background check,” she said. “But somebody who isn’t a gun dealer can sell guns, and the buyer doesn’t have to go through the background check.”

Regardless of what — if anything — lawmakers do, the country likely will not eradicate gun violence, said Daniel Nagin, professor of public policy and statistics at Carnegie Mellon University, whose research focuses on criminal and antisocial behavior.

But that doesn’t mean it can’t be decreased, he said.

“We already have in this country such a large stock of firearms — particularly semiautomatic-type weapons — that these kinds of violence are going to be with us for a long time,” he said.

Schultz agreed.

“There are so many firearms on the street and people already own so many of them,” she said. “If someone wants to get a gun, they’ll be able to get one.”